l tensile: second the difference between XP and UML?(10:10)
l kentbeck: To answer a basic question-- XP and UMLXP is a social system for software development, UML is a notation for describing software. You can use UML inside of XP, but teams get along fine without lots of documents besides the code and tests.
l yhufo: Is document improtant in XP? what type of document should be write(10:11)
l kentbeck: The documents you must write are the code and tests
l superlong: Mr beck,we can discuss a visual project,how to use XP in it?
l XP程式設計師並不是不做視覺上的思考(think visually)，他們只是一般不儲存影像(picture)。
l It's not that XP programmers don't think visually, they just don't usually save the pictures.
l notyy: what problem does xp resolve?
l I'll answer the one about what problem XP solves. XP is good when you have lots of uncertainty about the requirements, XP gets you a concrete, running system quickly, and lets you modify it at a fairly constant pace. That way, you don't have to know everything before you begin.
l yhufo: but 'crc card' and 'user story' is not code or tests
l Regarding CRC cards and stories-- those aren't documents. You don't save them forever. You gain insight from them, then discard them.
l yhufo: can you tell we the best web-site about XP you think !
l In the meantime, xprogramming.com and extremeprogramming.org are both good places to start.
l joe_lee: Is XP a recursive process?
l 答覆有關遞迴程序(recursive process)的問題。是的，或者我可能說『不規則碎片形(fractal)』。以一年為期的你描述你所想要的（故事）然後去做。以一分鐘為期的你描述你想要的（單元測試）然後去做（撰寫程式碼）。分解的不規則碎片形是經過相當的深思熟慮的(deliberate)。
l Re: recursive process. Yes, or I might say fractal. At the scale of a year you say what you want (stories) and then do it. At the scale of a minute you say what you want (unit test) and do it (code). This fractal breakdown is quite deliberate.
l xlp223: 1.Does XP somewhat over-emphasize consciousness of every contributor?
l Can xlp223 ask his question again. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to emphasize every contributor.
l taoxie: you mention unit test. I agree rerun all unit testing is reasonable, how is running all integrated test cases reasonable?
l Re: running all the tests. If you make decent coverage fast enough, you can run them all the time.
l yhufo: if we have no document,I don't know how we can control the changes in the software.I think we must doucmentation it !
l 當你們說『控制改變』，我則說『鼓勵改變(encourage change)』。控制來自測試、雙人組設計、大家坐在一起一起討論及持續整合。XP對於受過良好訓練的程式設計師運作的很好，但是如果你們目前不覺得有良好的訓練，別擔心。你的搭擋可以幫你，或者你的整合工作無法達成你必須把你的程式碼丟棄。
l When you say "control changes", I would say "encourage changes". Control comes from the tests, the pairing, sitting together, and continuous integration. XP works well with disciplined programmers, but if you are not feeling disciplined today, don't worry. Your pair partner might catch you, or your integration won't work and you will have to throw away your code.
l dggh: would you talk about xp practise games?
l 答覆有關XP game。我做過一個練習讓人們描繪一個咖啡壺的圖像。從這裡顯示有更好的game。在倫敦有人建造樂高(Lego)機器人。Joshua Kerievsky有一個團隊寫了一個劇本（電影的腳本）。
l Re: xp games. I do an exercise where people draw a picture of a coffeemaker. There are better games out there. Some folks in London build Lego robots. Joshua Kerievsky has the team write a screenplay (script for a movie).
l gigix: Mr. Beck, I think we must carefully design at first. If we ignore the importance of design, XP(or refactoring) can't improve the whole project. How do you think about?
l 回復有關設計的問題。我知道這將被討論。我，同樣的，堅持我們需要小心的設計。我寧願等待並且在我有一些經驗後再做，而不願依據推測(speculation)做設計。前置設計是一種正向回饋的循環(positive feedback loop)。你愈有經驗，你愈可以考慮前置設計，直到你完全的無用(useless)。另一種使用設計經驗的方式是等待你好的想法直到這些想法顯然立即的有用時。
l Re: design. I knew this would come up. I, too, insist that we need to carefully design. I would just rather wait and do it after I had some experience, rather than design based on speculation. Up front design is a positive feedback loop. The more experience you have, the more you can think to design up front, until you are completely useless. Another way to use that design experience is to wait with your good ideas until they are obviously, immediately useful.
l joe_lee: If no document, how we maintain the software?
l Re: documents. You have two very valuable documents--the code and the tests. If the tests always run 100% and never are allowed to regress, what else do you need?
l yhufo: At pair programming two person should often change his role?1 day or 2 day. I mean how often,one day or tow day.
l Re: pair switching. I switch 2-4 times per day when I'm on a bigger team. I can't pair for more than 6 hours in a day, because the concentration is so intense.
l xlp223: Since XP has no experts,what role should XP leader play among programmers, customers, manager?
l Re: experts. XP has experts, but their roles are not fixed from above. Expertise emerges from the experiences chosen by everyone on the team. Encouraging this emergence is the role of management.
l yhufo: In pair programming how when one coding an other one do what,just see and talk to another!
l Pair programming is not watching someone else code. It is coding as a conversation. The keyboard switches back and forth at least every couple of minutes. When pairing, you'll talk about ideas, try one, suggest another test, draw a little sketch of your next idea, code that up, refactor a little and on and on.
l dggh: Would you like to answer,how to deal with the "Programmers have little contact with customer"?
l Re: programmer contact with customers. I think this is so common, and it doesn't work well. That's why I said XP is a social system for development. Hourly contact with the people whose lives are affected by the software you write makes everyone pay attention.
l skyin: every one has it's own task,right? then how to assign the work when they pair-programming?
l Re: task assignment. This morning we will work together on your task. This afternoon you can help me with yours.
l yhufo: any tools for XP,Introduce some!
l Re: tools. I use Eclipse for Java and I really like it. I use IntelliJ sometimes, also. JUnit or its siblings in other languages are very helpful for unit testing and building acceptance test infrastructure.
l xlp223: Every pair programming has its unique style and level,then how can refactoring make it consistent or balance? and person or group to do refactoring need be arranged in addition.
l Re: refactoring. Every person singing in a choir has their own voice. How do they make music together? They decide that it is more important to sound good together than to sing "their way". The same is true on teams of programmers. It must be more important to everyone for the team to be successful than for any individual to shine.
l tensile: social system for development?
l 答覆有關與客戶接觸的問題。首先，所有的團隊成員聚集坐在一個大房間內—程式設計師、管理者、客戶、分析師、測試員、使用者文件、反覆設計。其次，『客戶團隊(customer team)』提出程式設計團隊必須通過的驗收測試(acceptance tests)。學習如何通過這些測試需要溝通。
l Re: contact with customers. First, the whole team sits together in one big room-programmers, managers, customers, analysts, testers, user documentation, interaction design. Second, the "customer team" is producing acceptance tests that the programming team must pass. Learning how to pass those tests requires conversation.
l notyy: its really difficult to arrange an "on site customer" in some situation.
l 答覆有關客戶無法隨時在側的問題。想辦法找到一個，否則準備接受失敗。舊的Taylorist 軟體開發社會結構無法運作。要有新的社會結構。
l Re: no customer. Get one, or prepare to fail. The old, Taylorist social structure for software development doesn't work. Make a new one.
l Re: "on-site customer". If it is important for software development to work well, sitting together is absolutely essential. If it is not important for it to go well, perhaps the project should be cancelled.
l yhufo: why xp need no document!
l XP needs two documents for sure--code and tests. If your team discovers it needs more, then write them. Most teams discover they don't need other internal documentation.
l taoxie: It occurs to me that you said the customer is aiming at Contract-style project, how about XP application in shrink wrapped product development?(10:39)
l This is definitely a shrink-wrap company. The customer team (marketing, testing, usability, customer service) is larger than with in-house development. Other than that, everyone agrees that software development goes more smoothly with a single stream of requirements (stories).
l tooliu: Would you mind to explain the WinDNA and XP?
l 答覆WinDNA與XP的關係。XP是Extreme Programming不是操作系統。
l Re: WinDNA and XP. This is XP as in Extreme Programming, not the operating system.
l xlp223: person or group to do refactoring need be arranged in addition or not?
l Re: refactoring. Design is everyone's responsibility. When we are sitting together and we see the need to refactor, we just refactor. If you ever needed to schedule it, you would have waited too long.
l notyy: should we educate customer first?
l Do customers need to know about XP? Absolutely. They are part of the team, so they need to know how the team works. Stories and acceptance tests are the two most important things to teach them first, then release (3-12 month) and iteration (1-3 week) planning.
l smilemac: I feel that XP is very similiar to evolution process, could you explainthe difference?
l Re: evolution. XP certainly uses the metaphor of evolution or growth. However, it prescribes many practices to support continued growth over a long period. The evolutionary delivery work of Gilb is similar in concept, but he doesn't say much about how to achieve his goals. XP says-- test first, pair, sit together, integrate hourly, and then you'll be able to grow and evolve your software.
l skyin: it seems xp is more suitable for customer-oriented application software, how about other?
l Re: customer-oriented. What other kind is there? If there are no customers, why write it?
l fpeng: What is the difference between release planning and iteration planning?
l Re: release and iteration. Releases synchronize with the business cycle, so they are 3-12 months long. Iterations synchronize with the need for engineers to have milestones, so they are 1-3 weeks long.
l dggh: Does xp require everyone in teams to be a system-analyse expert?It's too difficult!
l Re: does everyone need to be an expert. The team needs systems analysis expertise, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to do it. Likewise, the team might need database expertise, but 3-4 people would choose to have deep knowledge of databases while everyone else could help with a database task if necessary.
l Charity_Zhou: so i think XP has a more high request to the customers.
l XP certainly asks more of the customers. They get visibility and control, and with that goes the responsibility for choosing the scope of the system.
l 我不認為推卸責任在中國是特別的問題，我認為這是任何地方的特別問題。我們從Fred Taylor獲得工作的社會結構概念，約有1900工業工程師。他假設工人是懶惰且愚笨的，因此他們需要有人為工人計畫並有人檢查工人的工作（品質保證(QA)）。這個社會結構在軟體並不能良好運作，因為大部分的程式設計師既不懶惰也不愚笨。不管如何，Taylor的範例執行的非常深入以致多數人甚至不知道是來自何處。
l I don't think shifting responsibility is especially a problem in China, I think it's especially a problem everywhere. We inherited our ideas of the social structure of work from Fred Taylor, a circa 1900 industrial engineer. He assumed workers were lazy and stupid, so they needed someone to plan for them and someone to check on them (QA). This social structure doesn't work well for software, where most programmers are neither lazy nor stupid. However, Taylor's paradigm runs so deep that most people don't even know where it came from.
l dggh: When team velocity is too slow ,what can we do?
l Re: velocity. I just posted a long message to the XP mailing list on yahoo groups today. The short answer is that the only way to get the team moving faster is to encourage greater team spirit.
l zhujigang: Dear Beck, our team DO use pair programming, but what would a pair do if they have finished their story, but others have not yet? Do they need to wait for other peoples?
l Re: pairing. Every iteration each programmer signs up for a few tasks. If one is finished, start another one, or help your partner start one of his.
l simplebest: I want to learn whether you use Design pattern.Thanks.
l Re: design patterns. I absolutely use them. If you look at JUnit, there are patterns everywhere. It is one of the densest pieces of design I've ever done. However, the patterns were applied as they were needed, not because we thought they might be useful. We would write a test, get it running, then notice the code would be cleaner if we introduced a pattern. We would refactor to put that pattern in place. Four years later we're still doing the same thing. Skilled designers can use the patterns to shorten design discussions from hours to seconds.
l skyin: do you think xp is similar to 'learning organization' in managment domain?
l Re: learning organization. Yes. XP relies on the whole team continuously learning how better to interact.
l yhufo: did every one(in the team) should test the software.
l Re: testing. If we want to align authority and responsibility, then every programmer, who has the authority to create defects, must also have the responsibility of testing. I see no way out of this puzzle otherwise.
l Re: software. One of the first things I did with XP was begin to write a project management tool. It was a waste of time. XP is a new set of habits. Get the habits in place with the simplest possible infrastructure (pieces of paper on the wall is good). Once the habits are in place and the team has found its spirit, you can begin to introduce computers without damaging the process.
l adylee: what about do u think CMM vs XP?
l 答覆有關CMM的問題。CMM從製造業的係慣延伸。那是從所謂的製造業成熟模式(Manufacturing Maturity Model)的複製。軟體並不像實體的製造業。每一個軟體開發都不一樣，而有時候根本就是如此。
l Re: CMM. CMM derives from a manufacturing mindset. It is copied from something called the Manufacturing Maturity Model. Software isn't like physical manufacturing. Every software development is different, and sometimes radically so.
l simplebest: Which one of RUP and XP do you think more suitable for chinese programmer.
l Re: RUP in China. I have no idea. XP poses problems for programmers from every culture, but different parts of it are appealing as well. What is hardest about XP in China?
l tensile: XP is rely on software or people?
l XP absolutely relies on people. Good people tend to do good things. Less skilled people do less well.
l dggh: Proxy customers don't know customer needs,how to do?
l When I was last in Japan, they said they couldn't be honest with their customers, because the customer was God. I asked if a just-in-time supplier was honest with their customers. "Oh, yes, of course. It wouldn't work otherwise." I think this is like XP. We need to be honest with our customers and engage them. They may not like it at first, but the results will be so much better that they will learn to demand this new level of involvement.
l notyy: kent,you should know a word"no one is punished because using IBM",so many company manager would like to use rup or cmm.
l Re: RUP and CMM. What will it take before it is true that no one is fired for using XP? We should work to make that happen. "Oh, your team didn't deliver any software for three whole months. How could that work? You're fired." I'll take a technical question- patterns generate architectures. The original question was, "What is the relationship between patterns and architectures." This was when design patterns were new. So Ralph and I got in a hotel room and tried to answer the question. The answer we found was that just as a theorem can be derived from first principles, so an architecture can be derived from first principles (the patterns). The thesis, which no one has really proven or disproven, is that any architecture can be derived from the successive application of a small set of patterns.
l dggh: QA department wants detailed requirements,but we team only have simple document!God save us?
l Re: QA. In XP, QA has an up-front role. Every iteration, the best teams deliver acceptance tests along with their stories before the technical team starts breaking the stories into tasks. You need testers to write these tests, and the infrastructure to The most important thing for a programmer to have is courage--courage to risk looking stupid, courage to try difficult and new techniques, courage to communicate clearly with others even when that is hard support them.
l simplebest: In china, most of excellent programmer don't like others sit side by side, how to practise XP?
l Re: excellent programmers. On my teams, the most excellent programmers are those that communicate the most. Perhaps we have a different definition of "excellent".
l 阿樓: oh,my god.I think my manager can't using xp because he like control everything.what can I do for it?
l Re: managers in control. Managers who want to decide for you should not be managers. You might have to move, or they might. What you want from a manager in XP is the ability to build and maintain social networks. broke, then they would fix it. The customers can specify what level of load needs to be supported, and they write tests to determine if that level is supported. If the tests fail, the technical team fixes the system.
l fdu_se01: Mr. Beck. What is the characteristics of XP projects? Such as domain involved, size of development team, size of software product. CMM's data(esp.in US) is based on DoD..
l Size--4-30 people (including the whole team). Domain--everything imaginable. Size of product--whatever 30 productive people can produce in a few years.
l notyy: a good metaphor is very difficult to discover,how to solve it ?
l Re: metaphor. Finding good metaphor requires experience with the software. The really powerful metaphors won't emerge instantly. I had a great metaphor come to me after 12 years of working on a piece of software once. I hope I would be smarter now, but I doubt it :-(
l simplebest: About definition of excellent: it means you can resolve problems which the others can't.
l My definition of excellent is getting other to resolve problems which they don't think they can resolve. It's about how much the team can do together.
l zer: As a PM,if someone is out of your team,(he's a higher),what will you do ?
l kentbeck: zer what do you mean "out of your team"?
l zer對kentbeck說: he is fired.
l If someone leaves a team, it usually is not a big problem. Velocity might drop (or it might rise). The planning practices handle changing velocity nicely already.
l xlp223: linus is one of there excellent programmer. but he has a little timidness sometimes. what should i do?
l Re: timid programmers. Pairing really works well to help people become more social.
l skyin: direction of XP's evolvement?
l The next step for XP is to embrace more of the whole team--how do you take a giant story and break into reasonable small stories? How do you communicate and coordinate between teams.
l adylee對: do u think that XP is perfect now ?
l Re:perfection. You must be joking. Emergent systems in nature use 3-5 rules, typically. I'm sad that XP seems to require so many rules. I'm always looking for ways to simplify it. Could you maintain visibility and control without test-first? I don't think so, but I'm too emotionally involved to know.
l notyy: do u mean xp will be more simple,but I think agile process is more complex.
l I want XP to become simpler, but I don't see how to do that at the moment.
l tooliu: So you mean it's more important to be good in social than to be hard coding?
l Re: social and coding. I'd rather have someone who can do both. Everyone on the team is constantly learning new skills socially and technically.
l simplebest: I want to learn whether we can adjust XP's practices to fit our software team? especially according our chinese team member's character?
l Re: adjusting. You must adjust any process. You will be held responsible for your results, so you must have authority over your practices. However, I want people to adjust based on experience, not just throw out something important because they are afraid to try it.
l tooliu: Do you have any unsatisfied point to XP?
l XP Explained這本書是在1999年發行。（其中有許多是我現在想要改變的，但此時我在做別的專案。）
l XP Explained was published in 1999. (There's a lot I would change now, but I'm working on other projects at the moment).
l fdu_se01: How long can XP be applied in a team? (learning curve? I'm not sure about how to explain ^_^))
l Teams usually get good results after weeks or months. They usually become dramatically more effective after 9-12 months. A team I coach at Iona took almost a year to really get comfortable, and they can still become much more effective.
l xlp223: now there is agile software development.but can you say the relation between it and XP?
l "Agile" came out of a workshop where many like-minded methodologists got together to talk about their software processes. We had more in common than we had differences, so we decided to use the word "agile" to describe what we have in common.
l Email-- mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org.
l notyy: will you come to china to coach some chinese company?
l Re: visiting China. I would love to. I have coached teams all over America and several places in Europe. Now I'm beginning to work on Asia. I find it fascinating what is difficult and what is easy in different cultures. Swiss Germans like writing tests. Mexicans like pair programming. Refactoring is popular in the mid-west of America.
l lovelybug28: kent,sorry,i am new to xp.does xp has maneuverability? i dont like the abstract concept.
l Re: maneuverability. Suppose you could break down your desires for a large software project into one week pieces. Every week we would meet and you would tell me what piece you would think is most valuable to have next. I don't care what piece you pick, so you can radically change your overall concept of the software without hearing any complaints from me. Is that manuverability?
l taoxie: Is there any academic research work going on around XP? Only it is just industry-oriented?
l 答覆有關XP及學術性的問題。我們一些進度。有一些傑出的教授像Ralph Johnson有開設XP的課程。XP有許多教育上的優點。反覆式開發讓學生有機會嘗試許多不同的變化。
l Re: XP and academics. We are making some progress. There are prominent professors, like Ralph Johnson, that teach XP in their courses. XP has many pedagogical advantages. Iterations give students the chance to try many different variations.
l 答覆有關實際範例的問題。有一本不錯的書『XP in Practice』其中討論一個實際的（如果是小的）專案。
l Re: real examples. There is an excellent book, XP In Practice, that talks about a real (if small) project.
l skyin: Mr. Beck, tell us your personal toolbox for programming in XP,ok?
l 我的工具箱？我以Smalltalk寫程式時使用VisualWorks而如果我自己撰寫程式碼時使用Refactoring Browser，如果我使用Java撰寫程式碼時使用Eclipse及JUnit。我只使用兩種語言。
l My toolbox? VisualWorks for Smalltalk and the Refactoring Browser if I'm coding for myself, Eclipse and JUnit if I'm coding in Java. Those are the only two languages I use a lot.
l lovelybug28: about maneuverability, but we do so before xp appears...
l Re: maneuverability. If you already know how to do this, then XP has something to learn from you.
l notyy: is OOAD a must in xp?
l Re: OOAD. You must make analysis and design decisions, of course. The question is when and how to you notate them. Detailed analysis decisions are made iteration by iteration, and notated as automated tests. Design decisions are made during story estimation, during iteration planning, and during coding, and are notated as code and unit tests
l tensile: Mr. Kent, how to execute XP in Company?
l 答覆有關如何在一家200人的公司導入XP的問題。我發現你需要一個技術高手(champion)，他願意深入學習並且教導這個技術，一個企業高手去說服企業溝通以嘗試故事及反覆，及一個執行高手以讓每一個人不會異常而導致第一次要做的事背離。所有的改變一次完成。在XP中game的目的是在給定的任何的日期盡可能的交付最有價值的軟體。要能夠如此，團隊中的每一個人必須放棄絕對的符號表示法(notions of absolutes)並且持續的學習。
l Re: starting XP in a 200 person company. What I have found is you need a technical champion, who is willing to deeply learn and then teach the techniques, a business champion to convince the business community to try stories and iterations, and an executive champion to keep everyone from freaking out the first time things go wrong. All change is accompanied by chaos. The goal of the game in XP is to get as much of the most valuable software delivered as possible by any given date. To do this, everyone on the team must give up notions of absolutes and live with constant learning.
l notyy: Are there any real projects that are implemented with XP process? How about the effect.
l Re: real projects. The XP mailing list has representatives from more than a hundred real projects, I would guess. There probably aren't 1000 projects in the world using XP yet, though.
l charles_y: Why XP called xp?
l "extreme" is like extreme sports, where people prepare carefully and then achieve the impossible. "programming" because at the end of the day what we get paid for is running systems.
l adylee: why do u call "extreme" programing rathan than other words ?
l Re: "extreme". You want names to be accurate, memorable, and defensible. This last is most important. I wanted a name that my "enemies" would never say they were doing.
l lovelybug28：can you give me one sentence which summarize the essential of xp?
l Re: starting to use XP. Here's a simple exercise. Write down everything you need to do. Say how long each will take. Add up the numbers. Decide what not to do.
l xlp223: what are your enemies?
l 答覆有關『敵人』的問題。我不是真相使用這個字眼，我只是嘗試打字快一點。當我命名XP的時候我的心中有Grady Booch這個名字。他對於軟體開發程序與我有不同的概念（不完全是錯誤，只是不同）如果我要建立一個流行的事物，將會對Rational有一些壓力說他們也在做這件事。他們不曾說過他們是『終極』，既使他們說他們是『輕快(agile)』
l Re: "enemies" I didn't really want to use that word, but I'm trying to type fast. When I named XP, I had Grady Booch in mind. He has a different concept of software development than I do (not wholly wrong, just different). If I created something popular, there would be pressure for Rational to say they were doing it, too. They have never said they were "extreme", although they do say they are "agile".
l zer: before code,we must design everything in SE.
l Zer- why must you design everything. What would happen if you only design for the first half?
l xlp223: there is very different in mind between rup and xp?
l Re: RUP and XP. XP is a process. RUP is a process framework, with a default instantiation that looks a lot like manufacturing.
l morenew: can you tell me about the rule of planning XP? and the keys of XP?
l Re: planning. Negotiate scope. Time, quality, and cost are fixed. That's the XP way.
l fdu_se01: Does XP promote the idea that "everyone is differently important in the organization"? if it's the case, how do you deal with fluctuation of human resource?
l Re: fluctuation. The rule in XP planning is that every iteration (1-3 weeks) you plan to accomplish as much as you actually accomplished in the previous iteration. If you get done early, you ask for more work. If you are going to be late, you ask what you should defer. This simple rules elegantly handles vacations, personal growth, hiring, and shuffling between projects.
l 這裡有許多問題是關於「我們應如何在中國恰當的實施」。我建議你們由小的區域性的團體自行回答這個問題。你們的答案應該會比我的好。全世界有約20個這類的團體，而他們實際上幫助參與者。XP長期的未來將變得脆弱及老舊並且這些將有某些更好的東西來替換。介於50年間，不管如何，我期望許多XP實作者接受「只要以正確的方式做事情」。先寫測試、重整、快速具體的可交付性(quick concrete deliverables)、團隊結合商業(teams combining business)及技術才能(technical talent)。
l There are lots of questions about "exactly how do we do this in China". I recommend that you form small, geographically localized groups to answer these questions for yourselves. Your answers will be much better than mine. There are probably 20 of these groups worldwide, and they really help the attendees. The long-term future of XP is that it will get brittle and senile and be replaced by something better. In the intervening 50 years, however, I expect many of its practices to be accepted as "just the right way to do things". Test-first, refactoring, quick concrete deliverables, teams combining business and technical talent.
l fdu_se01: 2 ways to show a pic.First, show it as a whole from light to dark. Second, show it from part to part.Which way do you prefer?(Did I explain my question clearly?))
l Re: 2 ways to show a pic. I'm not sure I understand. I tend to work from concrete to abstract, data to theory. Is this what you mean?